Early morning ethics

Philonous says (05:06):
are you still awake?

Archie says (05:06):
yep

Philonous says (05:07):
just updated the blog

Archie says (05:07):
awesome man

Philonous says (05:08):
see if you recognise the pictures…

Archie says (05:11):
i cant say i do!

Philonous says (05:11):
oh, well the guy on the left is Baudrillard
and the guy on the right is Grothendieck.

Archie says (05:12):
i see! ive only ever seen the guardian obituary picture of baudrillard

Philonous says (05:12):
yeah, I don’t think it looks a whole lot like the other photos I’ve seen, but hey…
so whadya think?

Philonous says (05:13):
sweet as pie?

Archie says (05:14):
about the pictures? i like them!
i just need something interesting to write

Philonous says (05:14):
woah!
that hasn’t stopped me
I’ve asked Le Fox to write something when she gets the chance
she was going to write something on ‘The Sartorialist’

Philonous says (05:15):
hey, do you know much about ethics?

Archie says (05:16):
well i only know the fundamental positions of certain philosophers
and, of course, my own position
why?

Philonous says (05:16):
I was just reading about consequentialism

Philonous says (05:17):
as opposed to deontological ethics

Archie says (05:17):
ultimately they all rest on a ridiculous idea

Philonous says (05:17):
say what??

Archie says (05:17):
namely that you can measure an “outcome”

Philonous says (05:17):
mmm
no not really

Archie says (05:17):
even an idea like “positive”

Philonous says (05:17):
deontological arguments are to do with duty and obligation

Philonous says (05:18):
well ok
but the point is, they’re a personal framework

Archie says (05:18):
of course

Philonous says (05:18):
so all you have to do is to be able to make personal judgements on these sorts of things

Archie says (05:18):
i have my own completely arbitrary ethical code

Philonous says (05:18):
mmm
there’s another position again
are you a moral relativist?

Archie says (05:19):
i get called that a lot in debates

Philonous says (05:19):
mmm
It is sort of an ivory tower of a position

Archie says (05:19):
yep
but, so what?
is there anything wrong with that?

Philonous says (05:19):
well yeah

Archie says (05:19):
“”

Philonous says (05:20):
I think that moral philosophy should be about trying to fit some axiomatic system to the every day process of making moral judgements so that when you find that your intuition fails you, you try and derive something concrete from your framework to help you out…

Archie says (05:20):
of course you think that – youre a mathematician
whereas i think it should be based on an arbitrary set of values
which is how it DOES function

Philonous says (05:20):
well yeah sure

Philonous says (05:21):
but those arbitrary values are exactly these axioms (if you’re a relativist)

Archie says (05:21):
which was my point earlier
if you are going to have “consequentialism”, you might as well have “Archiecentricism” too

Philonous says (05:21):
well no, not really
but if you’re some sort of moral relativist then it’s hardly conducive to the solution of conflicts

Archie says (05:22):
who said i wanted to solve conflicts?

Philonous says (05:22):
oh yeah, I forgot – you’re a nihilist

Archie says (05:22):
not really

Philonous says (05:22):
hedonist?
(and moral relativist)

Archie says (05:22):
i just find definitions of the virtue of these things of ideas a bit shakey
at the very least, worth questioning

Philonous says (05:23):
agreed
ok, so if you’re going to get relativist on my ass, then you can climb back up into your ivory tower of theory

Archie says (05:24):
well hey, im not saying that i dont have a functioning ethical world view which values certain actions as “good” and others as “bad”
that doesnt mean that im ready to reduce the patterns into fundamental axioms and call the whole thing a success

Philonous says (05:24):
ok, so your world view is essentially that there is no coherent axiomatic world view

Philonous says (05:24):
it’s a ‘take it as it comes’ kinda thing

Archie says (05:25):
well theres obviously a philosophical sentiment and a seperate practical one

Philonous says (05:25):
hmm

Archie says (05:25):
which is where you might think im an idiot

Philonous says (05:26):
see I don’t get it. I figure philosophy ought to be a little bit practical:
I should be able to live by some world view which philosophy can provide (and if philosophy can’t provide it, then by definition, my ‘philosophy’ is my world view)

Archie says (05:26):
im pretty sure you can – the only real question is why you dont…

Philonous says (05:27):
well I think it’s either because language isn’t complicated enough to capture what goes on in our heads (Wittgenstein can go suck an egg) or because we’re not eloquent enough to be able to phrase it.

Archie says (05:28):
sure why not

Philonous says (05:28):
It sorta leads to the question –
Is moral philosophy doomed?

Philonous says (05:29):
it seems like any personal moral philosophy has to be derived from someone’s personal ‘common sense’. But then maybe that’s all there is to moral philosophy.

Archie says (05:29):
well thats my conclusion!

Philonous says (05:29):
hmmmm

Philonous says (05:30):
I don’t like it

Archie says (05:30):
yeah its not a nice thought…

Philonous says (05:31):
So…
I hear there’s a black guy running for president…

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